What's new
The Fig Spot

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on the site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other fig members through your own private inbox!

  • Hey Guest, have you heard of the new marketplace for all growers? You need to check it out and join today. Tree Snatch™.

The Osborn Figs | Are there differences?

Rigo007

Administrator
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
118
So today I decided to do a little research on the Osborn fig varieties due to a message I saw on the database from our friend jmrtsus . On the database, we currently only have:
You must be registered for see images attach

Archipel has been edited to not show as part of this group. I found there is a Osborn's Prolific which was told is different a variety (possibly Archipel/Encanto Brown Turkey) and then there seems to be a "Osborne Prolific which seems to be a much darker fig than that of Osborn Prolific. In other words, I need help with opinions on what varieties are what, which are simply synonyms and what should be taken out/added in to the database. What are your thoughts on these group of varieties?
I will hold off on editing much until I get some comments on here. Perhaps jmrtsus would like to join the database editing team? ;)
 

Shaft

Staff member
Registered
Fundamental
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
485
He'd certainly be a good fit! Do it John jmrtsus!
I've been wondering the same thing. Someone once said my Israeli 7 looks similar to Osborn, so I've added these three to my search just to confirm. Would be nice to know if they're all the same or not :)
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
You must be registered for see images attach
 
Last edited:

jmrtsus

Registered
Fundamental
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
55
So today I decided to do a little research on the Osborn fig varieties due to a message I saw on the database from our friend jmrtsus . On the database, we currently only have:
You must be registered for see images attach

Archipel has been edited to not show as part of this group. I found there is a Osborn's Prolific which was told is different a variety (possibly Archipel/Encanto Brown Turkey) and then there seems to be a "Osborne Prolific which seems to be a much darker fig than that of Osborn Prolific. In other words, I need help with opinions on what varieties are what, which are simply synonyms and what should be taken out/added in to the database. What are your thoughts on these group of varieties?
I will hold off on editing much until I get some comments on here. Perhaps jmrtsus would like to join the database editing team? ;)


Seems to me the Osborn Prolific is one fig and all the others are the Archipel.


I'll tell you what I found on this subject.

Condit says: Osborn Prolific = Rust and DNA testing says it is a singular fig now as it has not shown Synonyms based on the tiny number of DNA tested figs. See below. Closely related to Calimyrna

You must be registered for see images attach







Osborn = Archipel

Osborn's Prolific = Archipel

Archipel DNA shows 3 Synonyms, Malcoms Super Giant, Drap Dor (D'Or) and, Encanto Brown Turkey of the figs tested. See pic below. Note that Archipel is related to the Alma, a fig created by Texas A&M and a "Golden Celeste" but not known if it is an LSU fig.

See below
You must be registered for see images attach






Internet shows Osborne, Osborne's Prolific = Neveralla

Condit says Neveralla = Archipel

Neveralla was another made up name for a known fig by a seller.

From Condit; " Neveralla, listed in the 1942 catalogue of Willamette Fig Gardens, Portland, Oregon, by B. R. Amend, has proved at Riverside to be identical with Archipel."

Mr. Amend did the name switch of Lattarula for Blanche later and here Neveralla for Archipel. Shady dude!

Could there be more than one type of fig plant labeled as one of these? I don't need to bet on it is guaranteed. So will we ever know for sure what is what on this fig......yes. As soon as someone with a few years to grow every known plant with similar names to determine which matches which. Who's up for it? Will the sellers try to settle on a single name? What is the temp in hades today?

BTW, Condit's opinion of the Archipel in the garden was of "doubtful value", LOL!
 

Attachments

  • ScreenHunter_10357 Jan. 09 15.18.jpg
    ScreenHunter_10357 Jan. 09 15.18.jpg
    5 KB · Views: 2
  • ScreenHunter_10356 Jan. 09 15.16.jpg
    ScreenHunter_10356 Jan. 09 15.16.jpg
    19.7 KB · Views: 2

Shaft

Staff member
Registered
Fundamental
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
485
Seems to me the Osborn Prolific is one fig and all the others are the Archipel.


I'll tell you what I found on this subject.

Condit says: Osborn Prolific = Rust and DNA testing says it is a singular fig now as it has not shown Synonyms based on the tiny number of DNA tested figs. See below. Closely related to Calimyrna

You must be registered for see images attach







Osborn = Archipel

Osborn's Prolific = Archipel

Archipel DNA shows 3 Synonyms, Malcoms Super Giant, Drap Dor (D'Or) and, Encanto Brown Turkey of the figs tested. See pic below. Note that Archipel is related to the Alma, a fig created by Texas A&M and a "Golden Celeste" but not known if it is an LSU fig.

See below
You must be registered for see images attach






Internet shows Osborne, Osborne's Prolific = Neveralla

Condit says Neveralla = Archipel

Neveralla was another made up name for a known fig by a seller.

From Condit; " Neveralla, listed in the 1942 catalogue of Willamette Fig Gardens, Portland, Oregon, by B. R. Amend, has proved at Riverside to be identical with Archipel."

Mr. Amend did the name switch of Lattarula for Blanche later and here Neveralla for Archipel. Shady dude!

Could there be more than one type of fig plant labeled as one of these? I don't need to bet on it is guaranteed. So will we ever know for sure what is what on this fig......yes. As soon as someone with a few years to grow every known plant with similar names to determine which matches which. Who's up for it? Will the sellers try to settle on a single name? What is the temp in hades today?

BTW, Condit's opinion of the Archipel in the garden was of "doubtful value", LOL!
I for one will be testing as much as I can. I could not imagine history seeing me the way we see Mr. Amend. I'd rather be a seller who is known for the opposite of that
 

jmrtsus

Registered
Fundamental
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
55
I for one will be testing as much as I can. I could not imagine history seeing me the way we see Mr. Amend. I'd rather be a seller who is known for the opposite of that
Mr. Amend is the same as a nursery calling a Scott's Black a Fantasia. I have zero use for either and will never buy from them. Adding unneeded synonyms is stupid for marketing reasons. That is twice for Amend and I bet we find more. I preach not to trust sellers and yes my friend that includes you if they do not know you! (BTW, the OSU you sent has popped a leaf. And one cutting is so large I'll carve a Totem pole on the top and root the bottom.)

If I were you I would drop the OP/Archipel research for a more deserving fig, LOL! Like "Improved Celeste" for example, much more popular than the OP/Archipel and more inquiring minds. I have ICON I think but figs were few last year. Put a post up asking for cuttings to be donated and grow them out. On the other hand grafting would be quicker for fruit production. Fortunately my wife limits my exposure to sharp objects as it usually precedes blood flow. Hell, I even use an electric shaver cause I got tired of starting my day bleeding. So you better get coached up on grafting!
Fig on!
 

Shaft

Staff member
Registered
Fundamental
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
485
Mr. Amend is the same as a nursery calling a Scott's Black a Fantasia. I have zero use for either and will never buy from them. Adding unneeded synonyms is stupid for marketing reasons. That is twice for Amend and I bet we find more. I preach not to trust sellers and yes my friend that includes you if they do not know you! (BTW, the OSU you sent has popped a leaf. And one cutting is so large I'll carve a Totem pole on the top and root the bottom.)

If I were you I would drop the OP/Archipel research for a more deserving fig, LOL! Like "Improved Celeste" for example, much more popular than the OP/Archipel and more inquiring minds. I have ICON I think but figs were few last year. Put a post up asking for cuttings to be donated and grow them out. On the other hand grafting would be quicker for fruit production. Fortunately my wife limits my exposure to sharp objects as it usually precedes blood flow. Hell, I even use an electric shaver cause I got tired of starting my day bleeding. So you better get coached up on grafting!
Fig on!

Haha, yeah I'd say don't trust sellers, but I am sure most would rather they not be remembered by history as one who performed misdeeds. I'm glad to hear that the OSU wolf totem is doing well =)

I would love to learn more about the ICON situation. The reason I'm curious about Archipel/Osborne is Ross Raddi. I offered him some of my Israeli 7 cuttings when I first joined the scene, and he turned his nose up at it and said it looked like Osborne. Ever since that, I've wanted to know. I don't think it is, and I really want to prove him wrong.

I definitely want to learn to graft. That's this year or next year's project. Depends on how far I get with the excavator.
 

jmrtsus

Registered
Fundamental
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
55
Haha, yeah I'd say don't trust sellers, but I am sure most would rather they not be remembered by history as one who performed misdeeds. I'm glad to hear that the OSU wolf totem is doing well =)

I would love to learn more about the ICON situation. The reason I'm curious about Archipel/Osborne is Ross Raddi. I offered him some of my Israeli 7 cuttings when I first joined the scene, and he turned his nose up at it and said it looked like Osborne. Ever since that, I've wanted to know. I don't think it is, and I really want to prove him wrong.

I definitely want to learn to graft. That's this year or next year's project. Depends on how far I get with the excavator.
I had him on ignore for a long time. Just another self promoting shady seller. Very knowledgeable but couldn't keep his stories straight between his vids and the Forum.
 

Shaft

Staff member
Registered
Fundamental
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
485
I had him on ignore for a long time. Just another self promoting shady seller. Very knowledgeable but couldn't keep his stories straight between his vids and the Forum.
I didn't see him post on the forum, just old posts before my time. But I watch a lot of his content, learned a lot from him. Then I found out about him being a banned seller on What the Fig, and the story behind that. I used to think when he would talk about "all the knowledge that I have" he sounded pompous. I guess I still do, it's just a thing I can overlook. How was he inconsistent between the videos and the forum?
 

Figs4all

Registered
Fundamental
Joined
Sep 15, 2021
Messages
22
So today I decided to do a little research on the Osborn fig varieties due to a message I saw on the database from our friend jmrtsus . On the database, we currently only have:
You must be registered for see images attach

Archipel has been edited to not show as part of this group. I found there is a Osborn's Prolific which was told is different a variety (possibly Archipel/Encanto Brown Turkey) and then there seems to be a "Osborne Prolific which seems to be a much darker fig than that of Osborn Prolific. In other words, I need help with opinions on what varieties are what, which are simply synonyms and what should be taken out/added in to the database. What are your thoughts on these group of varieties?
I will hold off on editing much until I get some comments on here. Perhaps jmrtsus would like to join the database editing team? ;)
Hi Rigo. I did a lot of research on this topic and posted it on that other forum. Is there an easy way I could copy and paste the post here with pictures that you know of?

I found the original descriptions and name that Condit used and then also did some comparisons of my fig with a few others I found online. Then I stumbled upon the picture of OP on the USDA website and it must be the wrong photo. It looks like an Adriatic fig. I contacted USDA and they are correcting the issue.

There is a lot of variability out there. My version is actually called Osborne, and I received it from the owner of Edible Lanscaping. He said he obtained it from a nursery in Florida 40+ years ago which is now out of business.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

Shaft

Staff member
Registered
Fundamental
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
485
Hi Rigo. I did a lot of research on this topic and posted it on that other forum. Is there an easy way I could copy and paste the post here with pictures that you know of?

I found the original descriptions and name that Condit used and then also did some comparisons of my fig with a few others I found online. Then I stumbled upon the picture of OP on the USDA website and it must be the wrong photo. It looks like an Adriatic fig. I contacted USDA and they are correcting the issue.

There is a lot of variability out there. My version is actually called Osborne, and I received it from the owner of Edible Lanscaping. He said he obtained it from a nursery in Florida 40+ years ago which is now out of business.

You must be registered for see images attach
Try clicking edit post on the other forum. Then copy paste should work.

How many images are there?
 

Figs4all

Registered
Fundamental
Joined
Sep 15, 2021
Messages
22
Try clicking edit post on the other forum. Then copy paste should work.

How many images are there?
I copied and pasted here so let's see if the pictures show.

Hi all, my Osborn Prolific (OP) is fruiting for the first time this season and the fruit and leaf are in the pictures below. I have been researching OP to see if I have a true OP or a similar cousin or something different.

I have looked at many posts online and Ourfigs and there is a large variability in skin color due to ripening conditions it seems. I list some links at the end to save you some time searching.

I think I might have a true OP, but there are not a lot of leaf pictures posted so I have included the major leaf shapes on my tree.

First, a little on my fig and the observations from the first fruit year:

1. The color of the main crop fruit exterior skin is very variable. From dark brownish when it ripens during heat and sun exposure, to greenish brown when it ripen in cooler conditions.

2. Interior color seems consistently light amber colored.

3. The inside does not seem to have a hollow center so far.

3. Mostly two leaf types, but predominantly the shape of the 5 lobe pictures shown. It has another leaf type which has a more prominent center lobe which is interesting.

4. This is a tasty sweet sugary/honey fig.

I have been pruning this tree so I am not sure if it has breba yet.

This tree is in-ground, Northern Virginia.

I summarized some of the research below from three sources.

The first, is FIG VARIETIES: A MONOGRAPH,

IRA J. CONDIT

The leaf and fig exterior and interior color are described in the excerpts of quotes below.

"Leaves above medium, mostly 5-lobed; upper sinuses of medium depth, lower sinuses shallow, basal sinuses broad; base sometimes truncate, usually cordate; upper margins coarsely serrate, lower margins entire."

"...color bronze to violet-brown; meat white; pulp amber, or light strawberry, somewhat hollow; flavor sweet and rich;..."

I wish there was a photo of the leaves in this reference. Other than the 5-lobes, it is difficult to correlate the description using relative terms like "medium depth" without a measurement. Maybe others reading this post can give their thoughts on the leaves.

The fig color seems like a good match and the shape seems to match with the sketch provided in the document. The sketch is provided in the pictures. The fig does not seem to have a hollow center. But "somewhat hollow" makes me think it is not obvious and maybe there is a little "somewhat" in one of the pictures, 😂 .My tree is small and the figs are small, so I wonder if the hollow center will be more prominent in the future as the figs get larger.

The second is from figdumonde at the link below and seems to be a potential fig and leaf match, but not perfect. The fig looks like a decent match when ripened in cooler conditions, but mine is missing the hollow center. One of my leaf shapes looks like a great match, the one with the strong prominent middle lobe on the bottom right. The other two leaves in the picture are not as similar, with a prominently placed three-lobe leaf. The link with picture is below.



The third, the USDA DFIC 75, Osborn Prolific. The fig in the picture at the USDA site has a pink interior and the skin is very green. Could they have the wrong picture? or is it caprified? I saw a fig like this for sale on another post so it is in circulation. Condit does mention "light strawberry" but this seems fairly dark. The link is below.










Hi Rigo. I did a lot of research on this topic and posted it on that other forum. Is there an easy way I could copy and paste the post here with pictures that you know of?

I found the original descriptions and name that Condit used and then also did some comparisons of my fig with a few others I found online. Then I stumbled upon the picture of OP on the USDA website and it must be the wrong photo. It looks like an Adriatic fig. I contacted USDA and they are correcting the issue.

There is a lot of variability out there. My version is actually called Osborne, and I received it from the owner of Edible Lanscaping. He said he obtained it from a nursery in Florida 40+ years ago which is now out of business.

You must be registered for see images attach

Here is an update. I contacted the USDA and someone got back to me and said the are sorting out how the picture was posted of a fig that looks more like an Adriatic than OP. They will be updating the photo on their site.

I also contacted the seller of my version from Edible Landscaping (EL). Michael is the owner of EL and he actually calls the fig Osborne. He mentioned he had Osborne since the 70's, probably Gulf Shores Nursery, not in business anymore. I'll be calling my fig Osborne (EL) going forward.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
207
Messages
1,290
Members
237
Latest member
Sidnala2
Top